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Lukas1 vs Hirohiigo

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Lukas1 vs Hirohiigo

Post by Lukas1 on Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:20 am

So I'd like to get some thoughts of our game with hirohiigo. You can find it here. Hirohiigo chose double sidepawn picker opening, which should be win for black and i was black, although I've lost the game. I think I know, what could have been done better for black, but still I'd like to get some comments from much stronger players than me, for example hidetchi or takodori.

So the main issue was my 23. move B*4f, which is jouseki, White then played B*6d however. I didnt know, what is the jouseki line if white makes a bishop drop at B*6d, so i just did bishop trade and then dropped bishop at B*6c. Was there a better reply?

White continues B*7b. I didn't know, if i could make bishop trade again, so I decided to create horse at 7d, which i thought would be better, if i could drop rook at 4a. It was too early for that rook drop, because i had no other material. Or am I wrong?

White could create horse at 2g too, he decided to prevent that rook drop by moving his gold to 4b, so i prevented white from creating horse by S2h. Following P*2f, G3h, R*2d. I thought i can allow white exchange his bishop for my two generals(which was of course very bad thought and i still don't know how did I get to it), so I pushed the edge pawn. What could I do to defend? Thinking about it, my 31. move could be pawn drop at 2h. I would have to use a pawn and it has another downside. If white would follow the same line, i would make a wall with generals, which is not very good for black's king. And white would manage to create horse or dragon. Were there any better option to completely avoid this situation?

Then another very bad move for black was 81. Golddrop to 7e. I just made very lax reading of that situation and thought, that afer Sx7e, +Bx7e white will just move the rook to somewhere safer. It was complete mistake. Would P7e work? It was another move I was thinking about after the game.

Are there any other parts of the game, where black could do much better?

Also about white's 64th move. IMO white's better play would be L*8a, wouldn't it?

Oh and about 81st move.. wouldn't K5f work much better?

Thanx for all comments of the game.

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Re: Lukas1 vs Hirohiigo

Post by shogismive on Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:59 am

well you opening was fine
you protected against his attacks and everything as well as getting that bishop promoted which was a good move
however it went downhill from there imo
once he dropped that pawn near your camp it was all over
you should of proteced that area a lot more because at the end of the day it lead to your demise.
whenever i play i always make sure that my opponent can't promote a piece because thats like adding 4 pionts in his favor (in terms of material).
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Re: Lukas1 vs Hirohiigo

Post by Lukas1 on Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:01 am

shogismive wrote:well you opening was fine
you protected against his attacks and everything as well as getting that bishop promoted which was a good move
however it went downhill from there imo
once he dropped that pawn near your camp it was all over
you should of proteced that area a lot more because at the end of the day it lead to your demise.
whenever i play i always make sure that my opponent can't promote a piece because thats like adding 4 pionts in his favor (in terms of material).
that is the problem. HOW should i protect that area more? actualy i was asking some more skilled players. I don't know your strength, but after reading your post, i think you are at most at the same level as me, i was asking someone of much higher level than me, i mean at least 3 classes.

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Re: Lukas1 vs Hirohiigo

Post by shogismive on Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:11 pm

18. instead of doing
1g-1f
i would of done r*f3
now your opponent would of most likely taken it in which case you take back with g3-f3 which isn't too bad because you how only lost 1piont of material and will still be up.

if he drops a pawn in front of the rook to make the rook take it he is still exposing the silver on a3
however
your opponent then could of done *d3 to block the path or move the gold across to protect the silver
however you can then do loads of checks with the horse to shift the silver to block creating a nice coffin for hiirohigo's king.
and with the pawn drop on d3 you can simply move the rook back to protect that postion again

anyway back to the piont
with the rook drop you are cutting off the bishops access line to attack on g2 and so now if he doesn't take you can man a defence with *g2

hope that helps
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Re: Lukas1 vs Hirohiigo

Post by Lukas1 on Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:11 am

white will trade bishop for rook, following then with P6e, revealing rook's attack at Horse, if horse goes 8c or 6c or +Bx6e, then bishop-knight fork with rook drop at 8th file. If horse goes to 8e or 7e, black R*2e, now if black tries to get rid of that rook by B*1f, white pushes the 6th file pown and it's double attack. Bishop-rook exchange actualy doesn't remove the threat of doubleattack, so white can go ahead and promote the pawn. Gold will recapture. If black traded bishop for rook, white will again drop the bishop at 4e. Because now it's attacking the gold and it's aiming for the same attack as if it were at 7b. So black is losing here. Maybe he could after R*2e move his horse somewhere safer, but black can still do that two piece exchange, this time giving rook instead of bishop to black's hand. The material balance would be exactly the same, with a bit better position for white compared to what happened in real game. Another possible avoiding of this situation may be after P6f, black plays +B7f and after Px6g, +Bx6g. After this move, if white's B*4e is not much of a threat for white, but this works only if white exchanged rook at 2e for bishop. Because if he didn't, white can drop bishop at 4e, bishop trade, rook recaptures, whatever happens, Rx4g+, Gx4g, P2g+, silver will run or recapture resulting rook's promotion either way and white will have still bishop in his hand and also managed to get horse from the board. And white's king is better protected, so white is better here. If black after R*2e plays B*1f and after P6f plays Bx2e, white doesn't care, he continues with Px6g, white will have to recapture by gold, now black will capture bishop at 2e simultaneously attacking the horse and now he still can force black to bishop trade, getting horse out of the board and getting iniciative by playing P7e, then when there will be space for the fork B*5e(after getting left silver of that diagonal. And white is better here as well.

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Re: Lukas1 vs Hirohiigo

Post by takodori on Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:46 am

Though I don't usually play Yokofutori(Side Pawn Picker) and do not know the depth of the variation of it well, I think S-2h which prevented White's B-2g+ was in question. Instead of S-2h, I would like to think about P-3f at that position. If White takes it by Bx3f, then R*2f will be a good forking Drop.

Alternatively, assuming S-2h is a good move, then I would like to advance P-3f after White's dropped a Rook on 2d. If he takes it by Bx3f, then you can drop a forking Rook on 3e.

Since you already gained a pawn at the time of Bx7d+, sacrificing a pawn such as P-3f is no problem.
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Re: Lukas1 vs Hirohiigo

Post by takodori on Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:09 am

The reason I think why S-2h is in question is that it may give a chance for White to make a strong attack after P-2f and G-3h such as P-2g+ Sx2g Bx2g+ Gx2g R*3i.

R*4i responding to R*3i will be a bad move since White's R-3h+ will be forking the Golds on 2g and 7h. B*4i will be nonsense since S*3h will be decisive. So Black's King will have to escape to 6h and then White capture the kNight on 2i by Rx2i+. I have a feeling that's the position for White.
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Re: Lukas1 vs Hirohiigo

Post by Lukas1 on Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:30 am

takodori wrote:The reason I think why S-2h is in question is that it may give a chance for White to make a strong attack after P-2f and G-3h such as P-2g+ Sx2g Bx2g+ Gx2g R*3i.

R*4i responding to R*3i will be a bad move since White's R-3h+ will be forking the Golds on 2g and 7h. B*4i will be nonsense since S*3h will be decisive. So Black's King will have to escape to 6h and then White capture the kNight on 2i by Rx2i+. I have a feeling that's the position for White.
Thanks a lot, i tried to use BCM Shogi to analyze the game, but it didn't come up with this idea. Well, many years of playing the game surely beats computer. Anyway, thank you very much.

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Re: Lukas1 vs Hirohiigo

Post by whits on Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:58 am

shogismive wrote:18. instead of doing
1g-1f
i would of done r*f3
now your opponent would of most likely taken it in which case you take back with g3-f3 which isn't too bad because you how only lost 1piont of material and will still be up.

if he drops a pawn in front of the rook to make the rook take it he is still exposing the silver on a3
however
your opponent then could of done *d3 to block the path or move the gold across to protect the silver
however you can then do loads of checks with the horse to shift the silver to block creating a nice coffin for hiirohigo's king.
and with the pawn drop on d3 you can simply move the rook back to protect that postion again

anyway back to the piont
with the rook drop you are cutting off the bishops access line to attack on g2 and so now if he doesn't take you can man a defence with *g2

hope that helps

Maybe at move 18 you can play P*2e. As after Rx2e, P3f, Bx3f, R*3d forking bisshop and silver. If he doesn't take with Bx3f, you have N-3g scaring the rook away. Followed by P*2e again.

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Re: Lukas1 vs Hirohiigo

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