Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer

This thread serves the purpose solely for people who have 1 or 2 questions, or very simple questions such as confusion about a certain part of the rule or why moving this is better than that, etc. These questions should be simple and short, and they probably don't deserve a thread of their own since they can be easily answered, so just post the question here and others will answer them.

For question posters: Please put a Q: in front of your question to indicate that is a question.

For answerers: Please put @ Username or quote his or her post to answer the question so there will not be any confusion of which answer pertains to which questions.

Q: What is brinkmate?

But I think I know already: just like check (oute) is a threat to capture the king in one move, checkmate (tsume) is check you can't escape, threatmate (tsumero) is a threat to checkmate in one move, and truly win in two, and brinkmate (hisshi) is threatmate you cannot escape; thus, check and checkmate are to a ladder or shicho in Go, what threatmate and brinkmate are to a 'loose' ladder (yurumi shicho) in Go. But am I right?

DoubleU wrote:Q: What is brinkmate?

But I think I know already: just like check (oute) is a threat to capture the king in one move, checkmate (tsume) is check you can't escape, threatmate (tsumero) is a threat to checkmate in one move, and truly win in two, and brinkmate (hisshi) is threatmate you cannot escape; thus, check and checkmate are to a ladder or shicho in Go, what threatmate and brinkmate are to a 'loose' ladder (yurumi shicho) in Go. But am I right?

@DoubleU:if you compare it to go, brinkmate would i compare to a net. (You know net, right?) Threatmate in go would mean a move, which if not answered would kill a group. And check would be atari.

DoubleU wrote:Q: What is brinkmate?

But I think I know already: just like check (oute) is a threat to capture the king in one move, checkmate (tsume) is check you can't escape, threatmate (tsumero) is a threat to checkmate in one move, and truly win in two, and brinkmate (hisshi) is threatmate you cannot escape; thus, check and checkmate are to a ladder or shicho in Go, what threatmate and brinkmate are to a 'loose' ladder (yurumi shicho) in Go. But am I right?

Good question. I'll cover all the definitions of mate (check, checkmate, threatmate, brinkmate) in this post.

Check:

In Japanese, 王手 (oute). A check is a move that threatens to capture the opponent's king in the next move.



Sente has just played R-5e, checking Gote's king. Gote has to move his king, otherwise it will be captured.

Checkmate:

In Japanese, 詰み (tsumi). Checkmate is a situation where the king is completely surrounded and cannot avoid capture in the next turn.



The gold and pawn working together have delivered checkmate to Gote's king. He can't escape from the gold's attack, and capturing the gold would simply lead to recapture by the pawn.

Initiative Moves:

Before I discuss threatmate, I have to discuss initiative moves. An initiative move is one that approaches the king without delivering check. Take this example:



It will take two moves to be able to check the opponent's king. P-1d and then P-1c+ are called initiative moves - they approach the king. The following moves (K-1a +P-1b mate) are mating moves, not initiative moves. Therefore, it will take two initiative moves to mate this king. This is an important concept to understand when calculating whether or not you can win during the endgame.

Threatmate:

In Japanese, 詰めろ (tsumero). A threatmate is a situation that threatens to checkmate the opponent's king in the next initiative move.



This is a simple threatmate. Sente threatens to checkmate Gote in the next move with G*5b.



This situation is also a threatmate. In the next move, Sente is threatening G-2b +Rx2b N*2c mate. This is an example of a threatmate with more than one move (but one initiative move).

Brinkmate:

In Japanese, 必死 (hisshi). A brinkmate is an irremovable threatmate.


(金二 = 2 golds in hand)

This is an example of brinkmate. Gote has no way to move the threatmate on his king. Even with R*4b, a good defense, he is still mated by G*3b Rx3b G*4a.

Q: What is a vanguard pawn?

I've heard this term a lot, but I'm never quite sure what it means.

grayswx wrote:Q: What is a vanguard pawn?

I've heard this term a lot, but I'm never quite sure what it means.

grayswx: A vanguard pawn is a pawn at e rank, which is protected by other piece, like general, or a knight or lance. Vanguard pawns make strong pressure at opponent, as these pawns cannot be taken out simply. These pawns stop opponent's attack or restrict movement of pieces like bishop(actualy by blocking bishop's diagonal), or stoping opponent's silver general to advance. I really would like to demonstrate it, but system of our webpage to generate shogi positions is crashed at the moment and I hope, we will fix it soon.

grayswx wrote:Q: What is a vanguard pawn?

I've heard this term a lot, but I'm never quite sure what it means.

These pawns are examples of vanguard pawns. They are e rank pawns that attempt to keep your opponent's pieces stuck in their camp by preventing them from pushing their pawns. While by themselves they would be quite weak (they could simply be taken), generally a vanguard pawn is well-defended so that it continues to do its job as long as possible until you can breach your opponent's camp.

The most common vanguard pawns, especially in low-level amateur games, are pawns on 1e and 9e. Consider how powerful they are: They reject your opponent from making a powerful lance attack, give an effective escape route for your king in the endgame, and allow you to make powerful drops from the edges throughout the game. They are also well-defended by the lance.

Lukas1 wrote:I really would like to demonstrate it, but system of our webpage to
generate shogi positions is crashed at the moment and I hope, we will
fix it soon.

Why not use an Ajaban page? They are free to create and offer a diagram generator - it's what I've been using to make most of my diagrams. Here is an example of one of mine. You can create your own by replacing id=shogibanforlashogi in the URL with any id you want, such as id=ajabanforlukas

hirohiigo wrote:
Why not use an Ajaban page? They are free to create and offer a diagram generator - it's what I've been using to make most of my diagrams. Here is an example of one of mine. You can create your own by replacing id=shogibanforlashogi in the URL with any id you want, such as id=ajabanforlukas

I like our system, it can be found at http://kifu.shogi.sk (it's in english actualy). And it's finaly working, so I will demonstrate vanguard pawns, as i already intended:


Suppose this as real game. Although this position is not likely to happen, suppose, both players made some really strange moves, but Black's moves were better. Let's suppose, that black intended to block white and white's replies were completely wrong.

As you can easily see, pawns at 3e, 5e and 8e are all protected, so they can't be captured easily and not only that! Pawns at 3e and 5e prevent white from opening the bishop's diagonal, which is really very limiting. White's only hope is to open bishop's diagonal at first file, but this diagonal is already closed by that very same vanguard pawn at 3e. Moreover, if B1c, then black plays P1f, Px1f, Lx1f and bishop will run of course B2b, Lx1a, B1a. You can create something like a dangling pawn in first file anytime by supporting it by both droping lance or moving the rook to the first file. I guess that would be quite decisive attack against so much confined pieces.

Vanguard pawns are important, because they influence what happens on e rank. Whoever has the control of this rank is in better position, since such pawns slow down oponent's attack and also are threatning by strong attack with support of rook.

I like our system, it can be found at http://kifu.shogi.sk (it's in english actualy).

Oh this is nice. I like this a lot. I think I'll use this instead of Ajaban from now on, I especially like that it uses international notation.

Moreover, if B1c, then black plays P1f, Px1f, Lx1f and bishop will run of course B2b, Lx1a, B1a.

1. B-2b 2. P*1b might be a little bit better. If 3. Lx1b then 4. Lx1b+ forking the bishop and the knight. If 3. P*1c then 4. Px1a+ 5. Bx1a 6. Lx1c+ 7. Nx1c 8. L*1e 9. B-2b 10. P-2f and black is clearly better.



Not entirely important to your explanation but I think it's a situation worth considering in the diagram's situation.

Q: In hirohiigo's diagrams such as the ones demonstrating check, mate, and initiative moves, what do the two characters mean in the Black player's hand that don't look like pieces? I'm guessing they mean "nothing", as in "no pieces in hand".

DoubleU wrote:Q: In hirohiigo's diagrams such as the ones demonstrating check, mate, and initiative moves, what do the two characters mean in the Black player's hand that don't look like pieces? I'm guessing they mean "nothing", as in "no pieces in hand".

A: That's right なし(nashi) = nothing, empty

BlueFlame90 wrote:A: That's right なし(nashi) = nothing, empty

Look also here for more Shogi-Words: http://www.shogi.net/shogivocab/

Q: What is the reason for the uchi-fu-tsume, or (illegal) drop of a pawn to give mate? My guess (and why not make things easy with my guesses?) is that it's just one way to keep pawns weak or something.

DoubleU wrote:Q: What is the reason for the uchi-fu-tsume, or (illegal) drop of a pawn to give mate? My guess (and why not make things easy with my guesses?) is that it's just one way to keep pawns weak or something.

Mainly it's only because of japanesse mentality. You see, there was unthinkable a simple farmer, or slave would kill or harm shogun, or someone higher in the hierarchy. So uchi-fu-tsume refers to this moral codex. Like a foolish pawn could kill great king. It's unacceptable by society. That's the reason behind, I believe. Maybe Hidetchi or Takodori should be answering this question, however, as they're japanesse.

I'm not entirely sure of the reason behind it. You could ask the same thing about chess - why is a stalemate a draw and not a loss for the stalemated player?

It certainly keeps the game interesting.