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King in a brinkmate yet? If so, how to mate it?

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King in a brinkmate yet? If so, how to mate it?

Post by 1059860 on Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:16 pm

Sente (Black) to move... What's the fastest way to mate Gote's king? Or is Gote already in a brinkmate? I think that L*5e was a possibility as well as G*5c, but is there way to mate the king faster? If it's not in a brinkmate yet, what's the best way to create a threatmate situation?

Also, is Black's king in any sort of danger? Because that defense is very "hollow", and I'm not sure sacrificing any pieces without continous checks until mate is a good idea since I do not see a mate right away (King has Gold + Silver defending + a very large room to escape. 3rd file is defended by the Dragon).



Last edited by 1059860 on Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: King in a brinkmate yet? If so, how to mate it?

Post by Ricardo A. on Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:06 pm

I spentsome time on this... And i believe the best first move is G*5c.


After,there are a lot of variations and now it depends on the defensive move Gote
uses next. If he drop a pawn, whether it's on 5b or 4b, it's a tsume.


The most important thing is to drop that gold there, I guess . Because if king escape to his right side you can easily trap him dued to the pieces you have in hand and
the pawns you already got in the board. Whether he escapes to his left side it’s
much harder to catch him.


Gote can try to trade a silver for the promoted rook, for a desperate try to defend. But I guess there’s allways an option for sente (at least for the variations I managed to study).


If gote don’t drop a pawn in 5b or 4b, it get’s easier for sente, with for example, dropping another gold at 4c. A pawn drop now doesn’t work as well as before for gote.


I don’t know if this is very accurate, but it’s what I found out.
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Re: King in a brinkmate yet? If so, how to mate it?

Post by 1059860 on Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:48 pm

Well I did see that Gold drop (although I mistyped G*5c with G*3c, which is now fixed), but that's making a threatmate. My question was, was it a threatmate BEFORE that move was made, or basically as the position shown.

Also, Gote will never trade his Dragon for the Silver, because then Gote will have no attacking piece left, and Sente can just take about 30 turns and Castle the king into a solid Pure Silver Yagura (maybe?) and then promote a bunch of pawns before even making an attack, and Gote can do nothing because he barely has any pieces left.

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Re: King in a brinkmate yet? If so, how to mate it?

Post by hirohiigo on Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:12 am

It's a forced mate after R*4c.

1. R*4c 2. G-5b 3. G*6a 4. Kx6a 5. N*5c 6. K-7b 8. B*6a 9. K-8b 10. L*8c 11. K-9b 12. G*8b.

There are several variations of this line that all lead to the same mate.
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Re: King in a brinkmate yet? If so, how to mate it?

Post by 1059860 on Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:25 am

hirohiigo wrote:It's a forced mate after R*4c.

1. R*4c 2. G-5b 3. G*6a 4. Kx6a 5. N*5c 6. K-7b 8. B*6a 9. K-8b 10. L*8c 11. K-9b 12. G*8b.

There are several variations of this line that all lead to the same mate.

What if P*5b after R*4c? What now Razz

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Re: King in a brinkmate yet? If so, how to mate it?

Post by takodori on Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:52 am

I think there are several mates for Gote's King with G*6a or N*4c as the first move since Sente has thousands of pieces in hand.
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Re: King in a brinkmate yet? If so, how to mate it?

Post by 1059860 on Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:02 am

takodori wrote:I think there are several mates for Gote's King with G*6a or N*4c as the first move since Sente has thousands of pieces in hand.

Well I agree on the 2nd part, but I can't particularly see any form of mate even with those drops. Just because 1) the Dragon is there to prevent a Horse check, and 2) The king has 2 pretty solid defenders but a very large area to escape to. It's easy to make a threatmate but I am not sure if Gote's in a threatmate. People say that an attack with 4 pieces won't fail, but Sente has 8 non-pawn pieces including 2 major piece AND a horse on the board, I can't imagine that Gote's king is still not in a threatmate yet and 1 more move is actually needed to make that King a threatmate...

Also, I'm pretty sure that Sente's King is fine right? (I don't see any danger at all just from that Dragon.)

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Here are mating line exapmples

Post by takodori on Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:37 am

  • G*6a(!) Kx6a N*5c K-6b R*6a K-7b Rx7a+(!) Kx7a G*7b(!) Kx7b B*6a K-6b S*7a(!) Kx5c G*4d K-4b P*4c K-2a G*2b(mate)
  • N*4c K-6b G*5c(!) K-7b G*8c(!) Kx8c N*7e K-9d L*9e Kx9e P-9f K-8d R*8c K-7d G*6e(mate)


As to Sente's King, do not worry for being mated.
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Re: King in a brinkmate yet? If so, how to mate it?

Post by 1059860 on Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:07 am

Thank you! That's really hard to see. I wonder how did you see that...

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Re: King in a brinkmate yet? If so, how to mate it?

Post by takodori on Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:49 pm

It's at a glance Wink. Solving thousands of tsume problems from the easiest ones will make you find long mating lines more quickly and easily.
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Re: King in a brinkmate yet? If so, how to mate it?

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